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so uh pj thank you very much for for

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doing this

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uh you know we've kind of tangled on

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twitter a few times before now

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uh no it's a good thing to tangle though

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and it indeed we

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it's one of the ways of uh figuring out

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where

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differences are and then hopefully

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trying to resolve those differences

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correct so uh what we're talking about

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here is obviously the uh the events

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around november the 14th 2004 which is

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the

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and your initial involvement in

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in this the nimitz encounters which is

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you know the famous

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encounter with commander david fraver

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seeing a tic-tac-shaped ufo

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uh all these different radar contacts

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kevin days famously saw these these

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radar contacts

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and chad underwood producing the famous

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video which was later released

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uh so everyone can know about those

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things and and your

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your initial involvement in the in the

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events was

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i believe like mostly limited to

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this strange encounter where you had to

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hand over these these data breaks

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correct uh the other time yeah but since

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then you've kind of become a lot more

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involved in the discussion around the

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whole uh event

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uh probably because of your position as

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an eyewitness but also

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you're kind of like a technical expert

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on

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the the navy matters and the the events

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of of those days

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uh and you've also more recently become

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involved with the uap expeditions

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which is this uh this company that i

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believe kevin day

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uh and gary voorhees for the co-founders

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and uh you and a bunch of other people

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uh related to the event i've been

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involved in in this

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as well so we can talk about that as

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well so

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i just want to show you to set the scene

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um so going back to 2004

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could you just say when you personally

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were

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first aware that something unusual was

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going on

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i mean for the most generic purposes

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where we were training office of the

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coast of mexico southern california

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is a routine training area for us we've

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been there a lot the type of training we

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did the type of flight schedules we ran

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it's all relatively normal you know the

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only thing that differed very

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day-to-day was you know what time our

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plane launched or what time our plane

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came

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you know it was all standard training we

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had done previous deployments

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um so we kind of knew what was going on

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we're on deck when we need to launch our

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airplane we um

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there's a lot of systems on the hawk

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that take time to turn on and warm up

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so we're up there several hours before

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you know we can listen to radio traffic

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that plane's got a lot of radios

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sometimes we take a nap

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it's kind of hard to say what we do once

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that plane's up and running when we wait

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for the air crew

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and you know the plane eventually leaves

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with the air crew comes back

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we get back on that airplane we make

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sure they didn't break anything we

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have a bunch of classified hard drives

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on that airplane that we have to take

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off

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when we're not in the airplane um and

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that's

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obviously how i got involved in this

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whole thing um the hawkeye

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that was airborne during uh commander

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fraber's intercept

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the one that kevin day actually took

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control of fravor from

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we were running and i have to be very

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vague about this part because part of it

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is

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something classified we are running some

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system tests

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for something that was on the airplane

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that is separate from

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anything that had to do with dick it was

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not involved it was not used for it all

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we were doing was recording

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everything they saw so basically a

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complete screen capture of everything

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they did

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uh everything from you know their mouse

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clicks to what menus they open

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to what they saw to a bunch of

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background information

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all of that was being recorded on these

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bricks and i know for a fact it was

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being recorded because i'm the one who

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hit the record button

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okay um and so when it came

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out those specific bricks you know we

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obviously had to take them out of the

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airplane anyways

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but they were eventually going to be

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when we returned to san diego

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a week or so later we're going to be

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turned over to some civilians to

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basically analyze the data so they

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already had a purpose

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but what inadvertently happened because

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you know obviously somebody knew we were

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recording that stuff

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somebody wanted all that data because of

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all the other stuff they could have seen

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you know it had radar information on it

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had esm information on it

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there was a lot of information that

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those um those bricks had

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so after you know i got those bricks out

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of the airplane

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take them down put them in our safe you

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know

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timeline of minutes after

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this many years but it was within 15 20

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minutes of

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me putting those bricks back in the safe

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my commanding officer and two guys in

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air force flight shoots

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show up at our door on this on the ship

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and where my work center was on the ship

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if you ever look at the the flight deck

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of an aircraft carrier from the top

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on the left-hand side you see the the

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landing lenses

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the fresno lenses that they use to to

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judge

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landing right my shop is almost right

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underneath that

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okay we're far away from where the ready

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room is and far away from where my

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skipper is and

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they don't come to our shop we go to

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them

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so for my skipper to come all the way

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over to my shop was abnormal enough

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already

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for him to show up with two guys in air

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force flight suits

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who stick out like thor sore thumbs

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you know all that starts adding up to

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things that are weird

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and he simply says i need the bricks off

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that last flight

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no no paperwork no other

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discussion no nothing he just wanted

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them

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we got him out of the safe put him in

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the bags he took them

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they left and honestly that was the last

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i'd

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thought about it for for quite a while

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and then roger who is

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a friend of mine uh another enlisted

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avionics tech was flying on that flight

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he went through debrief and a bunch of

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other stuff

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some of which he was able to share um he

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shared with both myself

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and with dave beatty um

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when he came back he kind of started to

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tell us

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and then somebody walked in and he was

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shut down real quick

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so that was basically the end of it for

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ages and it became a drinking story

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until i saw dave beatty's documentary

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and obviously

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started diving back into everything to

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relearn

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what i had forgotten about and dave

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bailey's documentary that came out in

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uh like 2019 or something uh

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somewhere about there yeah yeah 1819.

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so which is quite a long time quite a

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long time after the uh the the incident

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of 2004 it's like 15

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plus years uh around 15 years

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uh so you you you say you didn't think

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about it at all in between 2004 and

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2015. i mean you must have thought about

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it obviously but

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it's not it was never to the level that

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obviously it is now

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it'd come up randomly in conversation um

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i had random conversations with some of

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the other people i worked with

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who've honestly one of the conversations

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i completely forgot i had

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until the guy reached out to me and

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reminded me the conversation we had

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um it was it was a bunch of abnormal

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stuff that happened

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um and i'm sure you've heard it

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especially if you've talked to any or

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watched any of fraver's interviews

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um yeah the air wing itself puts out a

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uh it's the airplane it's you know

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what's happening the next day what

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flights are going out what missions are

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doing et cetera et cetera

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and there's usually a cartoon that goes

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along with it

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and it they're the most crudely drawn

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things and it's normally just the air

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wing

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officers poking fun out of each other

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you know somebody did something stupid

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they're gonna make a joke about it and

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the next couple days were all alien

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related those little cartoons

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the ship or television started playing

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you know independent i think it was

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independence day but all alien themed

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movies

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and it became nobody quite knew

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what it was about but it became a big

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joke so you you saw these these

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uh videos being played like independence

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day but you didn't know yet

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about the the encounters i mean i knew

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but the vast majority of ship had no

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clue

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i mean there would have been people on

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um

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some of the shipboard systems that had

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access to the outside networks that

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would have had a clue

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but an aircraft carrier of 6 000 people

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you're probably looking at maybe 150

259
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that had a clue what was going on

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but obviously the people who are in the

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positions to

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make those cartoons and kind of control

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stuff they're the ones who knew so

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they're the ones

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making a joke it was more the air wing

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that knew because the air wing was

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involved

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so uh just you just helped me understand

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something here like i was a bit confused

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about the

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involvement of uh the air force uh

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do were the air force involved in the

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exercise

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with the air force planes playing no

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there was

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uh it was strictly an air wing exercise

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there other than

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one of the air wing or the one of the

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strike group ships that was pierside in

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hawaii they were still working with us

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they were just piercing hawaii

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there was nobody outside of strike group

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11 and air wing 11 that were

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participating in that exercise

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and when we're out to see there's only

286
00:10:13,910 --> 00:10:10,880
two ways of getting on that ship

287
00:10:16,550 --> 00:10:13,920
one is by cod which

288
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:16,560
is taken care of by my squadron so i

289
00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:18,000
would have seen anybody coming off the

290
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:18,800
back of that

291
00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:20,079
because i was the only one with cod

292
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:21,519
experience so i was always the one who

293
00:10:25,269 --> 00:10:22,399
got the

294
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:25,279
uh straw to go up and catch it it's a c2

295
00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:26,240
greyhound

296
00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:27,920
it looks very similar to a hawkeye

297
00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:29,519
except without the big dish on top and

298
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,720
it's a little fatter

299
00:10:35,269 --> 00:10:32,720
it carries past 20 or so passengers and

300
00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:35,279
cargo it's kind of like a shuttle type

301
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:38,560
exactly and the only other way besides

302
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:40,240
that is helicopter

303
00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:42,000
right the cod stands out you're going to

304
00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:43,519
notice somebody getting on on off the

305
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:44,880
cod because

306
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:47,760
everything shuts down when that happens

307
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:48,560
you know

308
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:50,640
they come in at the end of the landing

309
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:53,040
cycle and everybody has to help unload

310
00:10:58,150 --> 00:10:54,959
it everybody sees the passengers

311
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:58,160
but the helicopters they come on and off

312
00:11:02,630 --> 00:11:00,560
the deck so often throughout the day

313
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,640
they could have easily gotten somebody

314
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:04,160
off those and nobody would have noticed

315
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:06,000
nobody would have paid attention

316
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:08,240
because they didn't show up on the cod

317
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:09,920
so i have no idea how those two officer

318
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:11,200
air force officers

319
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,640
even got on board the only thing i can

320
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:14,640
think of is they came on board

321
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,160
be a helo yeah i think you said you

322
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:20,320
you were you would normally hand over

323
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:22,320
the the data bricks the hard drives at

324
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:23,279
the end of uh

325
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:26,560
of the mission uh or the the exercise

326
00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:29,040
uh but you wouldn't hand them over to

327
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:30,160
these air force people

328
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,160
no normally those those bricks um

329
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:36,079
we call them bricks they're basically a

330
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:37,760
removable hard drive

331
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:40,160
um they're barracuda hard drives if

332
00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:41,440
you've ever heard of that brand

333
00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:43,440
yeah it's just a standard computer hard

334
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:45,839
drive yeah inside a fancy case

335
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:48,640
and normally we use those until they die

336
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:50,000
and then we replace them with something

337
00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:51,360
new and

338
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:53,200
the old ones get shredded and smashed

339
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,800
and destroyed

340
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:56,720
but the only time we ever send them away

341
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,240
is for

342
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:00,800
um like special testings if we've done a

343
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:02,720
major systems upgrade

344
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:04,800
they'll ask for a set off a flight just

345
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:06,000
to

346
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,880
help test or help check for any

347
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:10,560
remaining system errors that they hadn't

348
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:12,480
tested out

349
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:15,279
because they have the two groups we'd

350
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:16,720
normally send them to

351
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:19,279
have basically duplicates of our

352
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:20,399
airplane

353
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:23,200
sitting in a air-conditioned room and

354
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,120
they can run and test everything almost

355
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:27,200
identically to

356
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:30,560
our airplane which is why

357
00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:33,839
when the bug issue comes up

358
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,519
i get a little defensive because i know

359
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:37,040
how much testing

360
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:38,800
is involved before that stuff hits the

361
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:41,279
fleet um

362
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,920
yeah but because we don't normally we

363
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:45,600
don't normally send them off but this

364
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:47,200
was one of the times where it was kind

365
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,240
of planned out

366
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:50,639
and it just so happens it never happened

367
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:51,360
because

368
00:12:56,310 --> 00:12:54,959
that data got taken right so you you

369
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,320
were planning to hand them over because

370
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:58,000
they were doing this this test of

371
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:59,200
something that's classified that you

372
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:00,880
can't discuss

373
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,200
and but you think that they recorded

374
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,680
additional information

375
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:07,120
and i think specifically you mentioned

376
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:09,600
somewhere else it was the uh the esm

377
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:13,200
data can you explain what esm is uh

378
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:16,079
much of esm is classified but there is a

379
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,880
bit of

380
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:19,120
generic information you can get on

381
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:20,560
lockheed martin's website

382
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,880
even wikipedia if you look it up it's a

383
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:24,720
passive sensor system that looks for

384
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:27,120
electronic signals

385
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:30,480
how it does it how it recognizes it and

386
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,240
exactly what range of electronic signal

387
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:36,560
it can look for is what's classified

388
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:39,680
but i mean as a hint

389
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:41,839
i can tell you know if you're running a

390
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,279
microwave inside your house because i'm

391
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:45,279
going to pick up that electric signal

392
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:46,959
so that alone should kind of give you an

393
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,040
idea how sensitive it is

394
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:51,120
um we used to actually drag a microwave

395
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,440
on a long extension cord out to tag

396
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:55,120
certain antennas when we were testing it

397
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:56,880
just

398
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:58,720
the well there's a built-in test set to

399
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,000
do the same thing

400
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:02,399
but it sucked we got better reliability

401
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,399
picking up a stupid microwave

402
00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:06,720
than we did the actual test set so that

403
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:08,079
is funny yeah

404
00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:11,279
um i use my microwave to testing my my

405
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:11,920
uh

406
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:15,360
meters

407
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:19,519
there you go yeah but

408
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:23,680
you know the radar on a hawkeye then

409
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:26,720
for as old as it was was a very very

410
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:28,079
good radar

411
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:30,240
but it's uh it's a pulse doppler radar

412
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:32,000
it's an older style radar

413
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,360
you know it spins you know i can get

414
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:37,440
into a lot of technical jargon

415
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:40,720
but for as good as it is

416
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,399
it's not going to hold a constant track

417
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:44,720
on something moving as fast as a tic

418
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:45,839
neck was

419
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:49,600
right or as we believe we think it is

420
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:52,720
it held slower targets it held

421
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:56,720
the the reigning ufo type style

422
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:59,600
that kevin day described i've been told

423
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,279
they were tracking those

424
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,360
and they were tracking it intermittently

425
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:05,120
but when they were constantly picking it

426
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:06,320
up it was via

427
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,800
esm which means that object was

428
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:10,720
transmitting some sort of electronic

429
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,120
signal

430
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,440
that they were able to pick up so i

431
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:15,440
believe that is why they went after

432
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:16,560
those bricks and that's what the

433
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:18,399
information they wanted

434
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:20,480
do you know if if it was picking up esm

435
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,720
data like before the 14th

436
00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:25,360
before the actual encounter with when

437
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:27,040
you know kevin describes it as

438
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:28,560
being several days of the things

439
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:30,399
drifting down the screen just radio

440
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:31,360
contacts but

441
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:34,160
there was no interest i've spoken at

442
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:35,920
length with the crew that was airborne

443
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:37,839
during favorite flight

444
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:39,360
and i've spoken with a few other

445
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:40,880
officers that i've remained friends with

446
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:41,920
over the years

447
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:44,160
who were airborne throughout that time

448
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:45,600
and

449
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:50,000
off our scopes

450
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,440
intermittently throughout that whole

451
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:53,519
period just like they were the princeton

452
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:56,079
um because for the most part when our

453
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:57,040
systems are on

454
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,480
they don't discriminate it's not like we

455
00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:00,240
only look at one small

456
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:02,880
slice of the sky it's looking everywhere

457
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:04,160
so even if we're

458
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:06,959
you know 200 miles away over here on on

459
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,480
this training mission

460
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:10,240
it's still picking up everything so if

461
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:11,519
it's in that airspace they're going to

462
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:12,720
see it

463
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:14,720
so i have no way of physically

464
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,240
confirming it because i can't see the

465
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,399
data i can't do any of that stuff

466
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:20,880
but i am being told by the crews that

467
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,000
were flying

468
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,320
that they were on and off uh tracking

469
00:16:29,829 --> 00:16:26,399
these objects throughout the week

470
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:29,839
okay uh

471
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:33,279
so you know what you described about the

472
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,959
in the older radar not being the same as

473
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:36,240
good as the princeton's radar that kind

474
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,360
of ties into

475
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,920
uh like what happened with fraber's

476
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:41,199
intercept where uh

477
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:43,199
i think initially fravor and there's a

478
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:45,519
huge difference between

479
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,519
that the the radar on like favorite

480
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:49,920
fighter those radars that were in his

481
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,480
plane

482
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:52,399
as brand new as the super hornets were

483
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,639
then have already been replaced

484
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,680
they were never meant to be the

485
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:57,839
permanent radar in a super hornet

486
00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:00,720
they were basically a stop gap they're

487
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:01,440
not meant

488
00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:03,600
they're meant to track a plane to fire a

489
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:05,679
missile and get that missile from the

490
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:08,240
the rail on framers fighter to whatever

491
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:09,600
target he's shooting

492
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:12,720
they're not meant to search for

493
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,720
like a body in the water they're not

494
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,400
meant to search for ballistic missiles

495
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,319
they're not meant to do all that

496
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:24,319
princeton was designed to track

497
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:25,919
ballistic missiles that's his primary

498
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:27,039
purpose

499
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:28,799
it just so happens that radar because it

500
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:32,000
can do that can do so much more

501
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:34,480
you know the hawkeye's radar is meant

502
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,440
for

503
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:37,120
airspace control it's supposed to see

504
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,440
everything you know

505
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:41,120
it does that very well you know a

506
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:43,600
hawkeye i've seen pick up driftwood

507
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,640
at you know well over 250 miles and if

508
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:48,559
you see a piece of driftwood

509
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,400
floating on the surface of the ocean you

510
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,000
can see how small it is and tells you

511
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,000
how good that radar actually is

512
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,080
but it's not meant to it's it's not

513
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,320
meant to track a ballistic missile

514
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,120
you know that's why the speed it will

515
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:03,600
eventually

516
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,640
out do that radar's capabilities whereas

517
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:09,120
the princeton is meant for that speed

518
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,559
it's going to track that object a lot

519
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:12,640
better that way okay

520
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:19,750
the so with fraver

521
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,919
fravo's out there doing his exercise uh

522
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:23,039
him and his wingman

523
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,799
so there's you know four people they

524
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:26,559
were essentially doing uh

525
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:29,200
good guy versus bad guy and they go out

526
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:30,799
and dog fight with each other

527
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:34,080
with each other okay yeah um

528
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,000
they were doing 2v2 which is exactly

529
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:41,280
um they discussed two marine pilots that

530
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:42,880
were airborne

531
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,520
um around that same time commander or

532
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:47,039
colonel couth or lieutenant colonel

533
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,760
couth

534
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:49,200
i can't remember the dude's name but

535
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:50,880
starts with a k

536
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:52,640
um they were actually supposed to be

537
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:54,559
fravor and his wingman's opponents

538
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:58,640
for that training evolution

539
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,039
and the hawkeye obviously controls

540
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:03,600
everything going on in that airspace

541
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:06,640
unless somebody specific requests

542
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,520
otherwise

543
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:09,360
which in this case was kevin day in the

544
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:10,559
princeton

545
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:13,039
the hawkeye then turned fravor and his

546
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,400
wingmen

547
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,400
over to the princeton the princeton was

548
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,760
then controlling those

549
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:19,919
but no airwing asset is airborne without

550
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:21,840
being controlled by the hawkeye

551
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:24,720
or the princeton and most of the time it

552
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:24,960
is

553
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:28,160
the hawkeye we are always airborne

554
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,480
okay okay so that makes sense uh

555
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,240
uh and so very specifically with with

556
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:36,240
fraber's encounter uh

557
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:40,880
uh the way kevin remembers it uh

558
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:44,160
he decided he wanted to intercept

559
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:47,200
uh this this group of five uh things

560
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:48,880
that he saw on the scope

561
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:52,160
and he knew that fravo was out there and

562
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:55,679
uh but at the time

563
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:58,880
the hawkeye didn't have uh these targets

564
00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:00,080
on their scope

565
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,360
to my knowledge no i believe you're

566
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:03,360
correct we did not see him at that exact

567
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:04,240
point

568
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:13,039
um dave beatty and i were told by the

569
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:14,000
individual we've

570
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:15,760
called roger because we're not going to

571
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:17,520
reveal his actual name

572
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:21,200
at some point during that flight the

573
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:24,159
tic tac object or a tic tac object i

574
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:25,679
don't know if it's the identical one the

575
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:26,640
same one

576
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:29,840
but one of those objects got real close

577
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,280
to the hawkeye

578
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,039
basically came up said hi and then took

579
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,960
off um

580
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,960
okay and that was during that was this

581
00:20:40,870 --> 00:20:38,880
about the same time as fravos

582
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,880
during like that i don't have the exact

583
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,240
yeah middle of the flight end of the

584
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:43,919
flight but during

585
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:46,559
that flight and it's a three and a half

586
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:47,520
hour or so

587
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:50,720
block of time that

588
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:53,280
that all happened yeah so at some point

589
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,400
during that

590
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:56,240
one of those objects came up and said hi

591
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,440
to the hawkeye and then took off

592
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,520
and if you i just shared roger's quote

593
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:03,280
on twitter right before we hopped on

594
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,480
oh yeah so what what was that um

595
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:08,880
well roughly i'm actually gonna have

596
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:10,480
still got it up i was gonna

597
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:12,080
i'll read it directly better than me

598
00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:14,159
trying to

599
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,679
dave betty is quoting the email between

600
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,200
him and roger

601
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:19,520
okay but he says basically first off i

602
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:21,520
did see something that transited

603
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,159
very quickly by our e2 and i cannot

604
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:26,480
honestly say i've seen anything like it

605
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,720
the object joined up with us briefly and

606
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,559
all on board had a few

607
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,559
upon arrival back to the nimitz we were

608
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:34,240
told to follow an individual down for a

609
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,280
debriefing

610
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:37,280
we made our way to a secure area on the

611
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:38,720
ship where the events were discussed

612
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:40,159
individually and then they were told it

613
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,840
did not happen

614
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:43,440
and roger is one of the crew who signed

615
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:46,159
the nda so obviously that's why he's not

616
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:48,240
elaborating any more

617
00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:51,520
on what he actually saw

618
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,559
now this this nda that they signed do

619
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:56,400
you think that was to do with the object

620
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,400
or to do with these the

621
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,320
the other stuff that you talked about i

622
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,720
think it's a combination of all of it

623
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,480
if you've ever seen a government nda

624
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:06,799
it's a very bland basic document right

625
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,520
yeah um i can't tell you how many have i

626
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:10,799
signed and most of them just have to

627
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:12,000
deal with

628
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:14,400
my basic security clearance or certain

629
00:22:17,110 --> 00:22:15,919
programs i worked on while i was in the

630
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:17,120
navy

631
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:20,480
it's basically a catch-all what makes

632
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,789
what makes an actual nda is the briefing

633
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:28,720
that comes along with it

634
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:31,600
it's okay it's it's what they say that

635
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:32,799
they don't write down that

636
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,480
actually is more critical than what's on

637
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:36,000
that piece of paper

638
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:37,600
because they will literally say you can

639
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:39,280
say this you can say this you can say

640
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:40,240
this

641
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,600
right and that's what would have

642
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:47,200
happened in

643
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:49,360
again i was not in their debrief i was

644
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:50,240
not

645
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:54,000
what they were told or what they

646
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:55,440
couldn't say

647
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:58,880
um i've pushed i'm going to say i push

648
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,080
the limits of my friendship

649
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:02,480
with roger to try and get him to share

650
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:04,000
more than he can

651
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:07,679
and you want to know exactly

652
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:10,559
but you know i do respect why he sticks

653
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:11,600
by his nda

654
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:13,520
i do respect why he doesn't want to come

655
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:15,360
forward you know

656
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:19,120
i know what job he presently does

657
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:22,799
and an error in any of this

658
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,679
could seriously affect what he does not

659
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,200
that he was doing anything intentionally

660
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:28,640
he is not still in the navy he has

661
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:29,600
gotten out

662
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:32,720
but he does work in the defense industry

663
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,080
got it out do you make it sound like

664
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,720
it's uh some kind of

665
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:38,880
some kind of uh ordeal being in the

666
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:40,320
middle

667
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:43,840
it can be all right all right so let's

668
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:44,720
get back to fravor

669
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:49,120
uh the fraver encounter um

670
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:50,640
one of the things like that kevin dave

671
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,120
mentioned about uh

672
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:55,360
these radar contacts like before just

673
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,640
directly before favors encounter we'll

674
00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:58,080
get to in a second was that

675
00:24:01,990 --> 00:24:00,880
he was told that there were uh the

676
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:02,000
ballistic missile

677
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:05,840
tracking uh system was detecting them

678
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,760
coming down from space

679
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:09,760
uh through sixty thousand feet or three

680
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:11,120
eighty thousand feet

681
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:12,640
and then coming down to the surface of

682
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:15,360
the water is that something that you

683
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:18,480
you have heard

684
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,720
the group of us myself gary kevin jason

685
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:24,480
we've all obviously talked at length and

686
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:26,960
we you know talk via text message and

687
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:28,640
facebook messenger who knows however

688
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:29,360
else

689
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:32,640
going to talk about

690
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:36,000
um yeah he's the instigator of these

691
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:37,440
discussions

692
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:41,039
he is he's he's more of the uh

693
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:42,559
i'm going to stick to and get it done

694
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:44,480
kind of guy than the rest of us

695
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,600
right but my last uh

696
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:49,919
in person kevin uh discussion with kevin

697
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,679
was actually in brooklyn

698
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:53,360
i don't know probably seven months ago

699
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:54,799
now

700
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:59,760
um the rain

701
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:01,919
i hate to i hate to even correct kevin

702
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:05,360
because he's not wrong on what he says

703
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:07,120
it's just i don't know if he used the

704
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:09,360
best choice of words

705
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:12,880
to say what he said you know there's no

706
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:14,080
reason to doubt

707
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:17,600
that they were way up high coming down

708
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:21,039
you know that's the that's

709
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:23,279
you know the range of spy one that's

710
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,640
where it's supposed to look

711
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:26,240
that's where ballistic missiles travel

712
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:28,720
is way up high you know so

713
00:25:32,710 --> 00:25:30,559
i have every confidence that that's

714
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,720
where they retract

715
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,320
i don't know if that's where they

716
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:36,480
started versus where that's

717
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:39,360
where they were tracked from that's my

718
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:40,320
only

719
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:46,549
is just i don't know if you know some

720
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:47,760
people say well

721
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:50,159
that's where they started tracking them

722
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:51,360
well that means they came from outer

723
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,480
space

724
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:53,919
i don't necessarily know if that means

725
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:55,360
outer space that just means that's where

726
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:57,120
we started tracking them

727
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,559
yeah i think outer space is quite a bit

728
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:01,200
higher than 80 000 feet

729
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:03,679
exactly it's could they have come from

730
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:06,640
outer space hypothetically yes but

731
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,080
it just people can't take

732
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:12,799
what he said as that's where they

733
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:13,760
started

734
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,760
you know he could have tracked them at

735
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:17,760
max range of spy one

736
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,279
and that's where he started to see them

737
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:21,360
but that does not mean that's where they

738
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,080
they started it's just like a hawkeye

739
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:26,159
radar it's got a very large range

740
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,960
the further out you get the less

741
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:30,320
accurate it is

742
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:31,919
right and it's it's the same with any

743
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:34,240
radar system no matter what

744
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:37,279
technology it is the further you get to

745
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:38,240
the end of the range

746
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:41,600
the harder it is for you to be as

747
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:45,120
accurate as you were close up just like

748
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:47,360
the objection you have with the flir

749
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,480
video is

750
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:50,640
he was at max range it's a lot harder to

751
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:53,279
be as accurate with that flir

752
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:56,000
at max range than it is at mid range or

753
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:57,360
up close

754
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:01,039
yeah yeah definitely uh but

755
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:03,279
with this you know the ballistic thing i

756
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:04,720
think this was something that

757
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:06,559
kevin didn't observe himself it was

758
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:09,039
something that somebody told him later

759
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,240
uh that he he said so it's not

760
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,320
you know directly from the horse's mouth

761
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:15,919
uh but if

762
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:17,279
something like that is happening this is

763
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:18,960
kind of a more general question

764
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:21,039
uh to do with like all the events of the

765
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:22,159
day

766
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:25,039
do you think that um what do you think

767
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:26,399
of the response

768
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:29,760
from from command basically uh

769
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:31,279
as what was going on because it's been

770
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:33,440
described as as like

771
00:27:38,149 --> 00:27:36,720
an act of war uh with with radar jamming

772
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,159
and things like that

773
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:40,399
i i mean hypothetically that if you if

774
00:27:42,789 --> 00:27:41,840
you look at the basic description of

775
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:42,799
what an act of war

776
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:45,120
is you know some of the events that

777
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:46,240
happened

778
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:49,520
do fri do actually fit that criteria um

779
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:52,480
an unknown when we're doing training

780
00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:55,039
exercises

781
00:27:59,110 --> 00:27:56,880
what we're doing is not publicized but

782
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:59,120
where we are it's not a secret where we

783
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:00,720
operate it's not a secret

784
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:04,080
you know all of that area is annotated

785
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:06,080
on almost any fishing map or any map

786
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:07,600
you're gonna find saying stay the heck

787
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,559
out

788
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,559
you know it's it's devoid of air

789
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:12,240
corridors for that same reason there's

790
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,919
no reason the civilian airplane is even

791
00:28:19,269 --> 00:28:15,600
gonna get close to that

792
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,279
without you know drastically being off

793
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:24,630
that area is set aside for us to safely

794
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:25,279
operate

795
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:28,080
without interfering with you know

796
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:30,320
civilian fishing boats or civilian

797
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:31,279
aircraft

798
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:32,720
because you're not going to want a

799
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:34,720
civilian 737

800
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,000
flying right through the middle of a

801
00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:38,240
dogfight with four f-18s something bad

802
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:40,399
is going to happen

803
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:43,279
it's yeah it's our way of protecting

804
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:44,480
ourselves

805
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:47,279
and everybody else that's why those

806
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,279
operating areas exist

807
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,200
you know they exist there they exist off

808
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,880
the east coast they exist in a lot of

809
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,080
places

810
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:56,880
for us to safely train and it's not just

811
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:57,200
us

812
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:59,840
canada has their own mexico has their

813
00:29:02,389 --> 00:29:00,480
own

814
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:02,399
you know a lot of the country with ma

815
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:03,919
countries with major navies all have

816
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:04,640
their

817
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,240
little safe operating areas for the

818
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:07,919
military to train

819
00:29:12,149 --> 00:29:10,559
all right so when something that's not

820
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,159
supposed to be in that area

821
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:14,399
ends up in that area a lot of red flags

822
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,520
are thrown

823
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:17,840
you know people get on alert people are

824
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:25,350
but the way that kevin describes this uh

825
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:28,080
is that there were these constant groups

826
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:29,919
popping up over catalina island in the

827
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:30,640
north

828
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:33,679
and then flying south at 100 knots which

829
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:35,120
is about wind speed

830
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,600
uh at that altitude and then

831
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:39,120
disappearing of

832
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:42,240
guadalupe in the south and when they did

833
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:42,640
this

834
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:45,520
they they traveled right through the

835
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,480
operations area

836
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:50,559
wouldn't wouldn't they have been

837
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:52,840
immediately intercepted the very first

838
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:55,679
time that happened

839
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:59,279
you would think so i would think so

840
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:01,200
in practice i believe that's how it

841
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:02,720
should happen

842
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:05,600
but there's a lot of decision making on

843
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:08,799
a lot of

844
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:10,960
when we're in a when we're in the

845
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:12,559
persian gulf we always have alert

846
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:14,640
aircraft set if we're not flying

847
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:16,480
they can get a jet off the deck in seven

848
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:18,880
minutes or even less if they had to

849
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:20,399
there's somebody sitting in a fighter

850
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,000
jet fully armed ready

851
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,320
to go and protect us if we had to one

852
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:26,399
more training

853
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,360
unless they're specifically training for

854
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:31,679
that status for an alert status

855
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:33,360
we don't have alert fighters set it's

856
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:35,039
going to take a lot more than

857
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,399
you know seven minutes to get an

858
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,000
aircraft loaded with weapons and off

859
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:44,389
we don't react the same way

860
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:47,679
in a training area as we do in a

861
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:51,039
a war zone or an open ocean zone

862
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:54,159
so there's an obvious delay in reacting

863
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:55,600
to anything

864
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:58,320
yeah so do you think it was the case

865
00:31:02,870 --> 00:30:58,720
that

866
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:02,880
radar glitches

867
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,480
i'm sure it was because for

868
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:08,640
you know the princeton is essentially

869
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:10,000
designed around

870
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,039
that spy one radar that radar is why

871
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:15,039
that whole boat exists practically

872
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,640
obviously it's got other missions and

873
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,720
other capabilities but that's its

874
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:20,720
biggest asset that's what it's for

875
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,559
for them to take that radar offline

876
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:27,039
and you know check it and go through it

877
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:28,880
and bring it back online which is what

878
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:30,799
gary did

879
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:33,120
they think something was wrong there's

880
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:34,960
no doubt about that gary will even tell

881
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:35,600
you

882
00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:38,960
that they thought that those were errors

883
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:40,399
in the radar essentially

884
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:41,760
and that's why they shut it down and

885
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:43,600
restarted everything

886
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:45,760
when they brought it up the problem was

887
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:48,240
now those tracks that were

888
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:51,679
um you know 50 or 60 percent

889
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:55,120
quality were now 90 to 100

890
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,120
quality and it's hard to deny that once

891
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,799
you shut it down and brought it back up

892
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:02,320
you're now seeing all these things

893
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:05,200
better than you were before and it's

894
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:06,799
somewhere around there that kevin was

895
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:08,720
then able to

896
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:12,159
convince his commanding officer to get

897
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:14,960
some fighters to go look at this stuff

898
00:32:21,269 --> 00:32:17,200
it's quite a while though it's about you

899
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,750
yeah that the problem was is it's not

900
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:25,360
that they were in our area or they were

901
00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:26,559
traveling through it

902
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,240
they weren't bothering us they weren't

903
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,120
endangering anybody they weren't

904
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:33,679
they weren't encroaching on us exactly

905
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:34,720
um

906
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:37,840
mexico in the area yes yeah i mean

907
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:39,919
so at some point somebody made a

908
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:42,080
decision not to do anything

909
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:43,760
you know but that's that's way above my

910
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:45,440
head that's way above gary's head that's

911
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:47,200
even way above kevin's head

912
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,640
so i suppose that kind of leads to like

913
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:50,559
is this a clue uh

914
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,960
is this a clue that it it was actually

915
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:53,679
something

916
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:56,799
that the powers that be like the captain

917
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:59,519
actually knew what it it actually was

918
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:00,080
you know

919
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:04,720
it's i've been asked more than once if i

920
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,519
believe that

921
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:07,200
they would test something of ours

922
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:09,519
against us without telling us

923
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:11,440
the answer is yes i've watched them do

924
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:13,519
it um

925
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:16,799
i've seen it i participated in it

926
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:19,120
just because i don't know or just

927
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:20,159
because

928
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:21,840
kevin doesn't know or fragra even

929
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:24,480
doesn't know doesn't mean

930
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:26,000
the admiral in charge of the strike

931
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:27,919
group doesn't know

932
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,960
right i know that's interesting because

933
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,480
i i think only people who would

934
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:34,960
be told in something like that are the

935
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,840
actual

936
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:37,600
absolute critical people who needed to

937
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:39,039
know

938
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:50,240
deployment that was our priority that's

939
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,559
what we needed to do

940
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,799
so if they wanted to run something

941
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:56,880
through our area

942
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:00,240
to just check on their systems or

943
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:04,080
test something it wouldn't

944
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,279
they wouldn't need to tell everybody

945
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:07,279
they'd need to tell a select few group

946
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,440
of people and that's all who would know

947
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:11,200
so it's very possible they could be

948
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:12,960
testing something on us and that's why i

949
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:13,359
leaned

950
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:16,399
towards it being something of ours and i

951
00:34:23,109 --> 00:34:21,190
it's extraterrestrial i've seen them

952
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:23,119
test it i've

953
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:26,240
participated testing you know i spent

954
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:28,639
three days sitting in a trailer

955
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,240
somewhere on the east coast

956
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:31,919
watching the learjet go up and down the

957
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:35,040
coast playing a bad gun just as testing

958
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:36,320
but the only people who knew what that

959
00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:38,720
leader jet were doing were maybe six of

960
00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:39,919
us

961
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:42,159
you know it was traveling over naval

962
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:42,960
stations and

963
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:45,200
over carrier strike groups it was doing

964
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:48,079
stuff but everybody doesn't know

965
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:49,440
because they have no need to know it's

966
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:51,119
not endangering them it's not hurting

967
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:52,639
them it's not going to interfere with

968
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,399
what they're doing

969
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:56,159
so if something like that is happening

970
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:58,160
and yeah this this

971
00:35:02,230 --> 00:35:00,240
this experiment whatever is flying over

972
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:02,240
the the top of the group wouldn't there

973
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:03,280
be a way for

974
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:06,640
if someone had concerns to you know kind

975
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:06,960
of

976
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:10,240
escalate the inquiry and uh and and ask

977
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:11,680
like are you guessing something in the

978
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,160
area the question is if anybody thought

979
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:17,200
to even ask that um

980
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:19,119
but it would go up the chain of command

981
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:25,670
essentially kevin day raised the concern

982
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:27,920
kevin went to his commanding officer his

983
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,680
commanding officer didn't just

984
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:33,440
say okay you can take control of those

985
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:35,680
fighters at some point he checked with

986
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:38,000
somebody to get that decision made

987
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,400
and he would have gone to whoever's

988
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:41,760
right above him

989
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:43,599
somebody in the strike group and

990
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,960
somebody in that strike group might have

991
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:46,560
already known what was going on and said

992
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:48,079
go ahead or might have asked somebody

993
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:48,960
else

994
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:50,560
but they would have gone up the the

995
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:51,920
chain of command until they reached

996
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:53,359
somebody who had a clue what was going

997
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,560
on

998
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:56,480
and it would have either kept going up

999
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:57,680
till they found somebody or it would

1000
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:58,960
have been stopped at some point because

1001
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:01,359
somebody knew what was going on

1002
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,440
or it's entirely possible nobody knew

1003
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:04,880
what's going on and that's why they gave

1004
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:05,520
the

1005
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:15,680
it gets vectored out to it uh by

1006
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:18,320
the princeton by kevin essentially or

1007
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:20,640
kevin's uh controller guy

1008
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:23,839
and then they arrive there and

1009
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:27,839
uh there's some uh

1010
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,240
discrepancies you know did you did you

1011
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:32,640
see the whole thing i did with kevin

1012
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,599
i have watched a good question okay so

1013
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,359
kevin describes the initial encounter a

1014
00:36:40,069 --> 00:36:39,280
bit differently to how fragra describes

1015
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:40,079
it

1016
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,520
i mean obviously you wouldn't be able to

1017
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:43,200
resolve this but it's kind of is this

1018
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:44,480
something you've talked about with

1019
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:46,640
with with kevin and the guys about these

1020
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:48,400
differences like kevin describes it as

1021
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:49,440
the

1022
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:54,960
object is actually at his altitude and

1023
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,880
then the object flies down

1024
00:37:02,470 --> 00:36:58,800
and then fraga follows it down which is

1025
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,589
i hate to say it none of us

1026
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,829
believe fravor is lying you know we

1027
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:11,520
we've talked about that man at length

1028
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:12,880
we've tried to reach out to him we've

1029
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:14,240
tried to talk to him

1030
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:16,640
he wants nothing to do with us we all

1031
00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:17,440
came out

1032
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,480
to support what he said we all opened

1033
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,560
our mouths because we saw what he was

1034
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:24,640
doing and we wanted to

1035
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:26,800
obviously not directly support him but

1036
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:28,320
support the whole narrative of what

1037
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:30,480
happened to get to the truth you know

1038
00:37:34,829 --> 00:37:31,839
that's why any of us have opened our

1039
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,910
it's fraber is looking at it from one

1040
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:39,359
point of view

1041
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:41,359
kevin is looking at it from an entire

1042
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:42,720
different point of view

1043
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:44,480
and the two of them have two complete

1044
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:46,720
set completely different sets of

1045
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:47,680
training

1046
00:37:51,910 --> 00:37:50,800
behind how they make their observations

1047
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:51,920
they're not going to look at the

1048
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:54,320
situation exactly the same

1049
00:37:58,790 --> 00:37:56,079
they're not going to recall it exactly

1050
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:58,800
the same even though it may be the exact

1051
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,800
situation that happened

1052
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:02,640
they're not going to say it the same way

1053
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:04,160
because they have two different ways of

1054
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:06,000
looking at everything yeah yeah

1055
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:07,920
kevin has an advantage kevin actually

1056
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:11,040
went to top gun

1057
00:38:17,349 --> 00:38:15,200
kevin got a good chunk of

1058
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:17,359
that pilot not the direct pilot training

1059
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:19,280
but a good chunk of learning what those

1060
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:20,560
pilots

1061
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:23,520
did and saw and how they observe things

1062
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:25,680
fravor has no idea

1063
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,480
what kevin's job is favor has no idea

1064
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:30,320
how kevin does his job

1065
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,800
faber has no idea how kevin is going to

1066
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:34,560
interpret any of that

1067
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:37,680
all he knows about kevin day is he's the

1068
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:39,119
guy i'm talking to on the other end of

1069
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:40,240
the radar

1070
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:42,560
and i'm just supposed to essentially do

1071
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,680
what he tells me unless it's going to

1072
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:46,079
endanger my aircraft

1073
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:48,800
that's what fraver knows about kevin so

1074
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:51,280
it's not that either of them are wrong

1075
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,960
it's they're looking at it from two

1076
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:54,880
different points of view

1077
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:57,359
so there's gonna be some variation in

1078
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:58,720
what they've said

1079
00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:01,040
yeah but this particular variation

1080
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:02,160
wasn't just like

1081
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:03,920
kevin's perspective this is kevin

1082
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:06,240
remembering what fraver told him

1083
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,680
uh later when they were back at the

1084
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:09,599
beach

1085
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:12,560
uh so it's it's it's kind of a you know

1086
00:39:14,790 --> 00:39:14,160
a difference in recollection really

1087
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:14,800
really the

1088
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:17,119
difference in perspective uh on that

1089
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:18,000
particular thing which is

1090
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:20,000
quite understandable i must say over

1091
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:21,040
such a long time

1092
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:23,440
and it's been what 14 years now give or

1093
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:25,440
take 15 somewhere in there

1094
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:27,359
i would like to think everything i say

1095
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:30,240
is as accurate as it was

1096
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:32,480
you know when the event happened but i

1097
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:34,240
know i've gotten some details wrong here

1098
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,040
and there

1099
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:38,160
i correct myself when

1100
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:40,000
i know for a fact that i said something

1101
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:41,359
wrong and it's not the first time i've

1102
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:42,720
corrected myself

1103
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:46,000
you know it's there's certain parts of

1104
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:47,599
the story that i just didn't remember

1105
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:49,200
the only way i know the details is

1106
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,720
because i've spoken with other people to

1107
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:52,640
kind of fill in the blanks to

1108
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:55,200
what i know yeah it's a shame that

1109
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:56,240
fravor won't uh

1110
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:58,800
won't really talk to more people outside

1111
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:00,079
of uh you know the the kind of the

1112
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:08,630
i've got his home address and his email

1113
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:10,240
i haven't called him because you know i

1114
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,680
don't want to be rude to the guy

1115
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:13,680
but i sent him a very nice polite email

1116
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:14,800
saying hey

1117
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,480
you're not far from me it's a couple

1118
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:18,560
hour drive i'll i will

1119
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:20,560
grab a case of beer i will come up i

1120
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:23,680
will you know we can talk about it

1121
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,960
nothing no expectations about anything

1122
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:28,640
but we just want to you know learn and

1123
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:30,640
reach out so you know

1124
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,240
there's more than just you but you know

1125
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:36,240
he just wants nothing to do with us for

1126
00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:37,760
some reason

1127
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,640
yeah it's just a shame uh because my big

1128
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:42,480
issue with fravor is not that he doesn't

1129
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:44,079
want to talk to us

1130
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:47,680
because he a long time ago spoke to paco

1131
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:50,720
carey i can never say his last name and

1132
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:52,480
now paco goes everywhere

1133
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:56,880
and and and retells favorite story but

1134
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:57,599
he's got

1135
00:41:01,190 --> 00:41:00,400
nothing to do with it and people take

1136
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:01,200
his word as

1137
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:04,560
you know gospel and drives me nuts right

1138
00:41:09,829 --> 00:41:08,000
you know paco it's kind of funny when i

1139
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:09,839
first reached out to dave beatty

1140
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:12,000
i only reached out to him because he he

1141
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:13,680
said at the end of his documentary his

1142
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,960
initial version

1143
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:16,480
you know hey if you know anything reach

1144
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:18,560
out and you know i just wanted to reach

1145
00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:20,880
out and say hey you know here's a short

1146
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:22,640
little tiny part of the story you don't

1147
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:25,680
know and that's how i got involved and

1148
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:27,200
he then put me in touch with gary and

1149
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:28,880
kevin and everybody

1150
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,079
um but when i initially

1151
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:35,040
did that it's trying to remember what i

1152
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:36,079
was going to say

1153
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:42,640
when he fraver or dave beatty didn't

1154
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:44,960
want to just take my word for it

1155
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,000
he wanted to try and essentially

1156
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:50,319
make me prove i knew what i was saying

1157
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:51,599
that i was i was

1158
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,640
authentic and i don't blame him you know

1159
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:56,240
you don't want to just take you know

1160
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:57,680
anybody's word for it

1161
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:58,960
you want to get some kind of

1162
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:01,680
verification that's how he got in touch

1163
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:03,040
with

1164
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:07,359
he could essentially independently

1165
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,720
verify

1166
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,319
you know everything i was saying so he's

1167
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:12,480
not just taking my word for it

1168
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:15,760
but in our initial conversations

1169
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:17,680
i would kind of tell dave beatty

1170
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:19,839
something he'd come back to me and say

1171
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,800
well paco said there's no windows in a

1172
00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:24,800
hawkins

1173
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:28,000
well that that that's almost a direct

1174
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:28,880
quote

1175
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:31,920
i simply sent dave back a video

1176
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,680
of not only the windows in the back of

1177
00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:37,280
the hawkeye being open

1178
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:38,640
because they're little flaps you can

1179
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:39,920
close the windows in the back of the

1180
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:40,960
hawkeye

1181
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,160
when the radar is operating they

1182
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:44,400
normally have those windows closed

1183
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:47,119
but they can be open so i sent him a

1184
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:49,280
video of those windows being open

1185
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,520
you know everything i was telling dave

1186
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:53,119
dave was trying to verify

1187
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:54,880
paco kept telling him i was wrong i was

1188
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:56,319
wrong i was wrong

1189
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:58,880
and i just kept sending tafe baby photo

1190
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,960
or video or evidence to support i was

1191
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,760
saying

1192
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:03,599
and that's why i don't like paco being

1193
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,760
involved in any of this because

1194
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:07,680
all he wants to do is believe favor and

1195
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:09,200
say what fragrance said

1196
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:11,280
right but that was a little yeah that's

1197
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:12,720
a shame it's a shame that

1198
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,760
it's uh no that's fine it's uh like you

1199
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:17,599
know obviously um

1200
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,440
there's lots of different people

1201
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,119
involved in this uh

1202
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,920
and lots of different opinions and i

1203
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:25,920
think it's it would be good if we could

1204
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:28,079
have them get together and talk about it

1205
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:29,599
i know you've you've been in uh

1206
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:31,040
discussions where it's like but it's

1207
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:32,800
like you and the guys like you and gary

1208
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,440
and uh

1209
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:35,520
and kevin day and then kind of on the

1210
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:36,480
other side you've got

1211
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:40,079
like uh fraver and chad underwood

1212
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:42,400
uh and you know i've tried to talk to

1213
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:43,520
them because

1214
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:46,640
i'll be honest chad underwood

1215
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:49,280
basically we he did reach out to us and

1216
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:51,760
we did have a very

1217
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:54,480
short collective discussion with him

1218
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:56,319
through dave beatty

1219
00:43:59,829 --> 00:43:58,000
uh at least i think it was through dave

1220
00:44:02,069 --> 00:43:59,839
it was through somebody at this point

1221
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:02,079
but he just wanted to get his portion of

1222
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:03,200
the story out

1223
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,800
and be done with it he didn't want to

1224
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:06,960
keep going with it he didn't want to you

1225
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:08,000
know keep discussing

1226
00:44:14,069 --> 00:44:11,280
it um but he at least

1227
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:14,079
spoke to us even if it was briefly so

1228
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,440
i'll give him that much

1229
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:17,200
and like the female fighter pilot i know

1230
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:18,720
for a fact of who that is i've had many

1231
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:20,560
conversations with that lady on the ship

1232
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:23,839
oh yeah but again doesn't want to come

1233
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,160
forward

1234
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,240
i know the entire hawkeye crew and who

1235
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:29,920
was flying and

1236
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:31,119
none of them want to come forward

1237
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,640
because they don't want to deal with any

1238
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:34,480
of the

1239
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:37,440
potential repercussions for the things

1240
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:40,400
that they are currently doing

1241
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:41,760
well they they've obviously signed an

1242
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:43,839
nda as well but the female pilot

1243
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:45,760
do you know what her her reason is

1244
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:47,440
exactly i mean i've heard that she's got

1245
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:48,079
a

1246
00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:00,000
before

1247
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:02,079
when you know i first got involved and

1248
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:04,240
then she decided

1249
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:06,720
with fravor's pushing as far as i can

1250
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:07,440
tell

1251
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:10,800
to do unidentified um but they obviously

1252
00:45:16,829 --> 00:45:13,280
kept her identity

1253
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:16,839
secret but i'll be brutally honest

1254
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:20,240
if someone took the time to figure out

1255
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:20,720
who she

1256
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,839
is it's very easy to do

1257
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:25,839
yeah nobody just wants to put two

1258
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:28,160
together

1259
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,119
nobody wants to find that out no and

1260
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:33,040
everyone's being very polite and uh it's

1261
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:34,160
great i think

1262
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,839
that's all we can request is respecting

1263
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:37,200
her privacy

1264
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:40,079
i i did email her asking her uh if she

1265
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:40,720
would

1266
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,680
uh you know be interviewed anonymously

1267
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:45,599
but she initially responded which is you

1268
00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:46,880
know it's fine it's understandable

1269
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:47,920
people

1270
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:50,800
don't want to uh get involved in things

1271
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:51,920
like this because in a way

1272
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:55,520
it's a media circus and i know uh was it

1273
00:46:02,230 --> 00:45:58,880
um commander slay uh

1274
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:02,240
slate it's late right yeah he

1275
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:05,839
he was he was the the wizzo on

1276
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:09,440
fravis plane the weapon systems operator

1277
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:12,160
and i think he went on this one fox news

1278
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:12,720
interview

1279
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:14,800
view but it was kind of almost like a

1280
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:16,319
hit piece because the guy

1281
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:18,240
interviewing them did this this silly

1282
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:20,079
thing beforehand where he was making

1283
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:20,720
jokes about

1284
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:24,400
aliens uh oh yes and they just

1285
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:26,960
i'll be honest i've done what two

1286
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,040
television shows now

1287
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:30,720
one being identified which was season

1288
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:32,640
two and the other was the one william

1289
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:34,560
shatner does

1290
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:37,119
the only reason i agreed to do

1291
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,560
unidentified

1292
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:40,319
aside from the fact that gary and kevin

1293
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:42,319
had already done it was i wanted to have

1294
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,720
a sit down conversation with lou

1295
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,480
all right and my conversation with lou

1296
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,880
elizondo was a lot longer than

1297
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:50,720
what was shown and how they portrayed it

1298
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,800
on the tv i don't really care how they

1299
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:54,319
portrayed it on the tv i wanted the

1300
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:55,760
conversation with lou

1301
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,520
and i got several answers that i hadn't

1302
00:47:03,109 --> 00:46:59,920
gotten before directly from lou

1303
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:03,119
through that anything you can share

1304
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:04,720
i mean it's nothing secret i've shared

1305
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:07,280
it before you know i never knew

1306
00:47:12,790 --> 00:47:11,200
where my bricks went other than

1307
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:12,800
they got taken i never knew where they

1308
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,319
went lou did

1309
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:15,920
lou knew the answer he knew exactly

1310
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:17,359
where they went he knew exactly what i

1311
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:18,480
was talking about

1312
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:21,280
before i even broached the subject they

1313
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,280
were taken and they were used to make

1314
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:27,839
briefings for senior dod officials he

1315
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:30,160
wouldn't tell me exactly who was briefed

1316
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:31,440
can't blame him it's probably not

1317
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,280
something he's supposed to share but the

1318
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:35,520
fact that he knew

1319
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:39,200
and he was able to tell me in such a way

1320
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:44,240
that he knew what was on those bricks

1321
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,079
and he wouldn't have known what was on

1322
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,480
those bricks if he didn't actually know

1323
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:50,160
what happened to them

1324
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:52,079
because it's not something that he would

1325
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:53,440
have just known

1326
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:57,200
um does he know the classified portion

1327
00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:59,440
that you were discussing earlier

1328
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:02,000
like i said he knew he knew the answers

1329
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:03,920
that he shouldn't have known

1330
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:05,599
if he didn't actually have access to

1331
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:07,119
those at some point

1332
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:09,200
so it was like i said i wanted the

1333
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:10,720
conversation with lou i could have cared

1334
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:12,000
less about the television

1335
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,599
i mean it was a novelty it was nice it

1336
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:15,119
was kind of fun but

1337
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:16,640
i wanted the conversation with louis

1338
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:19,760
alessando yeah that's what

1339
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:23,280
at that time i just go ahead no go ahead

1340
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:26,319
so at that time lou was still part of to

1341
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:28,000
the stars academy

1342
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:31,280
uh which is the tom de long

1343
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:34,079
and and others organization which in in

1344
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:35,920
a large part i think is is responsible

1345
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:38,000
for the the media interest because they

1346
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:40,079
they promoted stuff and they they

1347
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:41,440
essentially worked with

1348
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,119
uh leslie keane and ralph blumenthal

1349
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:47,200
at the new york times and doing the

1350
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:49,040
publicity

1351
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:52,240
uh what what's your opinion of to the

1352
00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:53,440
stars academy

1353
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:56,000
like i guess then and now because now

1354
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:56,800
they've kind of

1355
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:59,599
broken up a little bit and so now i have

1356
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:01,119
no clue what to tell you about them

1357
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:04,800
right but then it was they at least had

1358
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:06,960
an objective to try and

1359
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:09,359
i never quite had a solid grasp on what

1360
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:10,880
their overall

1361
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:14,400
intention was but

1362
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,520
through them a lot of information was

1363
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:19,119
able to be released a lot of information

1364
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:20,800
was able to be discovered

1365
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:22,559
even if they didn't do the direct work

1366
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:24,160
themselves

1367
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:25,920
you know guys like dave beatty and tim

1368
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:28,640
mcmillan wouldn't have been able to

1369
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:31,280
dig up a lot of the information they had

1370
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:32,400
without at least

1371
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:35,599
to the stars starting

1372
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,480
right you know i i have no idea what

1373
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:40,400
their like i said overall mission was or

1374
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,920
what their intention was

1375
00:49:44,420 --> 00:49:43,760
or what their goal was i don't really

1376
00:49:45,990 --> 00:49:44,430
care

1377
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:46,000
[Music]

1378
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:48,000
but they got a lot of this started in my

1379
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:49,119
opinion and that's

1380
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:52,079
a good thing yeah it's certainly been

1381
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:53,280
very interesting

1382
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:55,280
because of them and uh you know

1383
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:58,079
essentially it's the three videos

1384
00:50:01,829 --> 00:50:00,079
you know fragrance video and fragrance

1385
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:01,839
account was actually out there before

1386
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:04,400
uh ttsa came along they just kind of

1387
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:06,800
bumped it up in the public awareness and

1388
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:09,280
made it more real i think by by uh you

1389
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:11,599
know having some kind of official link

1390
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:13,760
with uh you know and eventually getting

1391
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:15,119
the navy to admit that the

1392
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:17,760
they were actually navy videos like i

1393
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:19,119
said i think they just lended some

1394
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:20,960
credibility to it all

1395
00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:24,160
yeah yeah uh so i

1396
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:25,599
with underwater's encounter underwater

1397
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:28,000
was the guy who filmed the

1398
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,319
the whole thing uh filmed the you know

1399
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:32,240
the famous video of this little

1400
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:34,640
rather fuzzy thing in the distance uh

1401
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:36,400
which is a subject of great debate

1402
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:38,720
which i'm i i contribute to quite a bit

1403
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:40,079
with oh yeah my

1404
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:42,160
my youtube analysis that is honestly

1405
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:44,160
something that needs to be debated

1406
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:45,520
i don't necessarily agree with

1407
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:47,920
everything that certain people have said

1408
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,160
but the only way we're gonna get to the

1409
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:52,079
truth about that is by dissecting it as

1410
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:52,800
much as we

1411
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:55,920
yeah which is kind of where you and i

1412
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:56,319
all

1413
00:50:59,349 --> 00:50:57,680
definitely don't agree on everything

1414
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:59,359
that's that's not a secret to anybody

1415
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:00,720
who's followed twitter

1416
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:04,000
but you've at least tried to stay

1417
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:07,520
relatively grounded in your

1418
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:09,040
in your intention to figure out what

1419
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,880
that object is

1420
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:12,480
you know versus some other people who

1421
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:14,800
are just throwing wild accusations out

1422
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:16,640
there

1423
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:19,760
yes i i you know i i would admit that

1424
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:21,680
like the navy i have not identified

1425
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,800
these objects

1426
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,720
uh i've just you know essentially put

1427
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:26,880
out hypotheses as to what i think they

1428
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:27,760
might be

1429
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:30,319
and i i guess pointed out things that

1430
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,000
other people have claimed

1431
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:34,319
that i think are wrong like with with

1432
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:35,680
underwood's video

1433
00:51:38,710 --> 00:51:36,880
and this is something that underwood

1434
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:38,720
himself believes is the

1435
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:41,520
at the end of the video uh when it goes

1436
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:43,040
off to the left

1437
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:45,040
he's saying that's because it

1438
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:47,599
accelerated very rapidly to the left

1439
00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:50,400
and i say that that's not the case and

1440
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:51,599
it was actually because

1441
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:53,760
uh uh the camera stopped tracking

1442
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:55,599
because he switched video modes

1443
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:58,000
and uh that changes the alignment of the

1444
00:52:04,390 --> 00:51:59,119
camera slightly

1445
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:04,400
and both are entirely possible yeah

1446
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:05,920
the only difference in interpretation

1447
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:07,440
not that you're wrong or not that he's

1448
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:08,240
right

1449
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:12,559
is he has

1450
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:14,640
the operator experience to go along with

1451
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:16,880
that video when he makes his discussion

1452
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:18,640
which is something you and i neither of

1453
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:20,720
us have i mean i know a good deal about

1454
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:22,240
that system just because of

1455
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:23,920
of learning about it and talking to guys

1456
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:26,160
who worked on it but i still don't have

1457
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:27,520
that same

1458
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:31,280
experience with it that he does but

1459
00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:33,200
both what he said and what you said are

1460
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,280
both completely possible

1461
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:37,760
you know he stated many times that he

1462
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:39,599
was flipping through modes trying to get

1463
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:41,599
anything he could on it

1464
00:52:48,069 --> 00:52:44,960
you know that doesn't necessarily

1465
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:48,079
yeah he's not going to get the best

1466
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,800
of anything going through it so quickly

1467
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,319
and it very well could be that

1468
00:52:56,069 --> 00:52:54,319
when he switched that last time it lost

1469
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:56,079
track you lost all of that

1470
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:58,400
just like you said yeah it could be a

1471
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:00,000
combination it could have gone fast and

1472
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:01,760
lost track it could have just gone fast

1473
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:02,800
you never know

1474
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:04,720
that's it's one of those answers i don't

1475
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:08,079
think we're truly going to get

1476
00:53:13,589 --> 00:53:11,680
the full answer to that

1477
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:13,599
my feeling with that is that i think if

1478
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,520
we do like you said do a bit more

1479
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:16,800
digging into it

1480
00:53:21,670 --> 00:53:19,599
uh i think we could perhaps you know

1481
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:21,680
resolve some of the disagreements

1482
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:25,119
and the attempts to um

1483
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:27,119
dig into it as kind of rebuttals to what

1484
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:28,160
i've been saying i

1485
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:31,119
don't really think uh stand up like like

1486
00:53:36,549 --> 00:53:33,440
underwood did actually give an interview

1487
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:36,559
with jeremy corbell and i just listened

1488
00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:38,720
to that yesterday again

1489
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:40,800
and it was a very very disjointed

1490
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:41,920
interview because it was quite highly

1491
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:44,000
edited but you know basically

1492
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,720
uh uh i think

1493
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:50,240
jeremy kobiel kind of asked the wrong

1494
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,440
questions then this is something i've

1495
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:53,280
discussed on the other videos that you

1496
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:55,040
know yes was it the change to two times

1497
00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:57,040
zoom that made it lose the lock when it

1498
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:58,400
that wasn't what i was saying it's

1499
00:54:02,470 --> 00:53:59,920
actually the change between

1500
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:02,480
i think uh the narrow mode and the wide

1501
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:04,000
field of view mode

1502
00:54:10,390 --> 00:54:07,200
uh so we're not really we're

1503
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:10,400
kind of like talking past each other

1504
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:12,319
which is something lex friedman said and

1505
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:13,920
that we're not really talking directly

1506
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:14,800
and i think

1507
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:18,000
it would be great to have people who

1508
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:19,520
know what they're talking about with

1509
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:20,800
this system

1510
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:30,470
i can answer one one plausible

1511
00:54:35,109 --> 00:54:33,280
thing put put out by more than one

1512
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:35,119
person i think you're one of them

1513
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:38,559
it's not an airplane there are

1514
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:42,240
too many things that would have to fail

1515
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:44,640
for an airplane to get anywhere near

1516
00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:46,480
them without us knowing about it

1517
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:49,520
yeah it would have to get by

1518
00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:51,440
the airborne hawkeye it would have to

1519
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:52,960
get by the

1520
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:55,200
air radars on the nimitz it would have

1521
00:54:57,510 --> 00:54:56,640
to get by the air radars on the

1522
00:54:59,589 --> 00:54:57,520
princeton

1523
00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:59,599
it would have to get by the spy one

1524
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:01,040
right on the princeton

1525
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:04,240
it would have to get by many many

1526
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:07,599
civilian air traffic control radars yeah

1527
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,799
to even get close to us i i would agree

1528
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:12,319
with all of that except for the first

1529
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:12,799
part

1530
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,839
like uh you said it it's not an airplane

1531
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:17,040
and then you're saying that if it was an

1532
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:19,359
airplane it would be on the radar my

1533
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:22,000
my theory here is that it was on the

1534
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:23,440
radar

1535
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:26,720
but what he was pointing his camera at

1536
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:29,280
uh was something that was on the radar

1537
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:29,920
but

1538
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,839
his estimation of where that actually

1539
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:33,359
was

1540
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:38,000
either

1541
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:40,240
further away or closer probably further

1542
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:42,079
away

1543
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:46,000
that's possible but that means it'd be a

1544
00:55:50,789 --> 00:55:47,200
huge screw-up

1545
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:50,799
on underwood's park

1546
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:53,040
yeah i don't know about huge but

1547
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:56,160
certainly a bit of a screw-up

1548
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:57,280
you're just looking at it from a

1549
00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:59,359
different point of view than i am yeah

1550
00:56:04,950 --> 00:56:01,440
you know every military aircraft in that

1551
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:08,309
the idea of that aircraft and what it is

1552
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:10,160
and who it is and all that is well

1553
00:56:14,470 --> 00:56:11,520
established

1554
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:14,480
you know they brief on who else is going

1555
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:15,760
to be in the air

1556
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:18,960
they know you know they may not know

1557
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:20,480
exactly what the other group of fighters

1558
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:22,319
is training on but they know there's

1559
00:56:24,309 --> 00:56:23,440
another group of fighters over there

1560
00:56:26,230 --> 00:56:24,319
training

1561
00:56:27,670 --> 00:56:26,240
and it should be six chips and they're

1562
00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:27,680
doing three versus three

1563
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:29,119
they know who else is in there they

1564
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:32,000
deconflict the airspace so they're all

1565
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:33,680
in their own little areas they're all

1566
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:35,119
training

1567
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:38,559
the hawkeye alone

1568
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,480
knows everything

1569
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:44,720
you know every fighter automatically

1570
00:56:47,829 --> 00:56:45,680
tells

1571
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:47,839
the hawkeye who it is the hawkeye is

1572
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:49,520
smart enough to know what that fighter

1573
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:50,319
is

1574
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:53,200
even if the fighter turned its off

1575
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:53,760
you know

1576
00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:56,960
yeah you've got more than one system

1577
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:58,799
that identifies

1578
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:01,119
every air wing aircraft up there you

1579
00:57:05,109 --> 00:57:03,280
know the the fighters have mids the hawk

1580
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:05,119
has got jtids there's

1581
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:08,400
basically as simple as iff which even in

1582
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:10,640
training every jet's got mode four going

1583
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:12,720
which is um

1584
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:15,520
iff if you look it up it's essentially

1585
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:16,079
good guy

1586
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:18,880
bad guy you know every jet's got a code

1587
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:20,400
in it that says hey i'm a good guy and

1588
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:22,240
it automatically pops up

1589
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:24,160
on all those other systems and it's all

1590
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:25,680
tied into each other

1591
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:29,280
when i say if he was tracking

1592
00:57:36,470 --> 00:57:34,400
a jet that was identified with his fleer

1593
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:36,480
he basically lost all his situational

1594
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:37,599
awareness

1595
00:57:43,030 --> 00:57:40,960
and he made a mistake tracking something

1596
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:43,040
that he already knew what it was

1597
00:57:49,510 --> 00:57:46,720
you know he would have been able to

1598
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:49,520
um just down his mid systems alone which

1599
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:50,000
is a

1600
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:53,280
distributed data link um it's got a

1601
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:55,040
slower update rate than say

1602
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:57,839
cec does but all the fighters have it

1603
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:59,119
and they're all tied into the network

1604
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:01,359
with the hawkeye with the ship

1605
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:04,400
you know there's such a giant

1606
00:58:08,069 --> 00:58:07,119
battle group pitcher painted yeah that

1607
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:08,079
they have access

1608
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:11,040
to that's why i say if he was tracking

1609
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:13,359
something that we had already identified

1610
00:58:16,549 --> 00:58:16,079
he made a giant mistake going after well

1611
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:16,559
i think

1612
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:19,599
yeah she had underwood as uh

1613
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:22,400
someone asked him if he would come on my

1614
00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:24,000
podcast and he

1615
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:26,079
uh refused emphatically so i don't think

1616
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:27,839
he's ever going to do it

1617
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:31,359
uh so i i think

1618
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:33,119
i think actually he did make a mistake

1619
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:34,720
and i think this kind of shows up a

1620
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:35,280
little bit

1621
00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:39,119
in in the video and the way it ends

1622
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:42,160
and at the end of the video he

1623
00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:44,160
is zoomed in all the ways in the narrow

1624
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:46,240
field of view and two times zoom so he's

1625
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:46,799
got this

1626
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,599
very and the very last thing he does is

1627
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:51,359
switch to two times zoom

1628
00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:53,200
which makes the object go off the side

1629
00:58:56,789 --> 00:58:54,400
even quicker

1630
00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:56,799
uh and then he loses the object and

1631
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:58,880
doesn't reacquire it

1632
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:01,359
but all he would have to do to reacquire

1633
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:03,040
it would be just to switch to the wild

1634
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:05,520
field of view because it's it's super

1635
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,880
zoomed in it's got this

1636
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:08,319
this tiny little patch of the sky is

1637
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:10,160
looking at and this object just moving

1638
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:10,880
really quickly

1639
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:13,280
statement unless that object actually

1640
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:15,520
took off as fast as he said it did

1641
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:23,829
no i'm not i'm not i'm not by any means

1642
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:26,079
confirming what he said i'm just saying

1643
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:29,680
if you're right if he backed out

1644
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:32,000
and essentially maybe repositioned his

1645
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:32,960
jet a little

1646
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:34,240
he should have easily been able to

1647
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:36,319
retract it yeah but he wouldn't even

1648
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:37,680
need to reposition his jet

1649
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:39,920
because it's it's the camera can go up

1650
00:59:43,349 --> 00:59:41,680
from there to there pretty much and he

1651
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:43,359
he's he was almost like looking straight

1652
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:44,960
ahead at this point and the object was

1653
00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:46,000
basically just

1654
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,559
you know essentially one degree to the

1655
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:50,400
left so it's a tiny tiny little

1656
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:52,160
bit it's information i don't know for

1657
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:53,760
sure that's the only reason i'm

1658
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:56,880
saying it the way i'm saying it but if

1659
01:00:00,309 --> 00:59:57,839
he had backed out

1660
01:00:00,950 --> 01:00:00,319
and like you suspect it was still right

1661
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:00,960
there

1662
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,799
yeah he could have required it but at

1663
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:04,400
the same time if he backed out and it

1664
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:05,200
had already

1665
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:07,040
hightailed it out of the area backing it

1666
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:08,640
out wouldn't have done any good

1667
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:10,319
yeah but he never even talks about that

1668
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:12,559
he doesn't talk about backing out

1669
01:00:15,990 --> 01:00:15,359
and in the early reports uh there's this

1670
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:16,000
this

1671
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:18,400
written report i think which includes an

1672
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:19,520
interview with him

1673
01:00:25,030 --> 01:00:22,799
i think this is the the longer executive

1674
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:25,040
report which isn't like i said it's not

1675
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,240
real

1676
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:28,559
yeah but what it says there's some

1677
01:00:31,430 --> 01:00:29,760
missing information

1678
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:31,440
it seems like there's a direct interview

1679
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:33,200
with him in that though

1680
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:35,440
the problem with that whole document is

1681
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:37,200
it's not an official navy document

1682
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:39,440
yeah no official navy document in the

1683
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:42,720
world no military document in the world

1684
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:45,440
of the united states military will ever

1685
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:46,079
reference

1686
01:00:55,030 --> 01:00:50,720
the

1687
01:00:57,430 --> 01:00:55,040
that aircraft it will reference

1688
01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:57,440
some other navy document or other

1689
01:01:03,109 --> 01:00:59,920
military document it will never

1690
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:03,119
ever reference wikipedia

1691
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:05,839
that document a was done several years

1692
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:11,750
so there could be you know already

1693
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:13,280
errors in it from that

1694
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,280
yeah there are people involved that are

1695
01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:17,280
interviewed in there there are people

1696
01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:18,640
interviewed in there that were not

1697
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:21,359
involved and there are flat out

1698
01:01:24,710 --> 01:01:23,680
parts of it that are just missing that

1699
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:24,720
have

1700
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:27,839
that they didn't even touch on

1701
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:30,799
well do you know if if they actually

1702
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:31,599
interviewed

1703
01:01:34,870 --> 01:01:33,280
underwood for it though because it seems

1704
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:34,880
like direct quotes

1705
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:37,200
i know for a fact they ain't the

1706
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:38,640
individual

1707
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:41,760
speaking for the hawkeye um

1708
01:01:45,270 --> 01:01:43,680
that they i mean i'm not gonna list any

1709
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:45,280
names because most people don't know the

1710
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:47,040
version with the names in it

1711
01:01:50,789 --> 01:01:48,640
um but that person had nothing to do

1712
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:50,799
with it and was more clueless than

1713
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:52,319
you know the average twitter user about

1714
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:54,480
what actually happened

1715
01:02:01,910 --> 01:01:58,079
you know somebody whoever

1716
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:01,920
you know what squadrons were in that

1717
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:04,240
whole situation is public knowledge you

1718
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:05,760
know it takes two seconds of googling to

1719
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:06,640
figure out what

1720
01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:09,039
what squadrons are on that ship and it

1721
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:10,160
doesn't take much

1722
01:02:15,510 --> 01:02:14,240
for anybody whoever actually wrote that

1723
01:02:19,109 --> 01:02:15,520
document to be able to say

1724
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,119
okay well let me call vaw117

1725
01:02:22,789 --> 01:02:21,520
the hawkeye squadron and actually try

1726
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:22,799
and find somebody who was there maybe

1727
01:02:26,549 --> 01:02:24,400
they'll talk to me

1728
01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:26,559
you know and the person they were

1729
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:29,119
directed to like i said had no clue

1730
01:02:32,549 --> 01:02:31,359
so i don't trust to that document

1731
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:32,559
whatsoever

1732
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:34,400
not saying that what's in there may not

1733
01:02:39,670 --> 01:02:36,880
be accurate or may not be

1734
01:02:41,029 --> 01:02:39,680
you know usable it's just there's no

1735
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:41,039
proof of

1736
01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:43,039
you know a lot of people want the actual

1737
01:02:48,309 --> 01:02:44,880
hard documentation

1738
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,319
have been made up by anybody for all we

1739
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:49,680
know

1740
01:02:55,190 --> 01:02:53,280
to do is get

1741
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:55,200
underwater and sit him down and go

1742
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:56,960
through the video with him like frame by

1743
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:57,680
frame but i

1744
01:03:01,029 --> 01:03:00,400
i really don't think he's gonna do that

1745
01:03:03,430 --> 01:03:01,039
yeah

1746
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:03,440
is it seems very uh aggressively not

1747
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:04,400
wanting to do

1748
01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:06,559
anything like that which is unfortunate

1749
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:09,839
really and i think a lot of the time

1750
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:15,510
for you or somebody with your point of

1751
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:17,039
view to really get to the bottom of that

1752
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:18,000
video

1753
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:19,760
is to literally get in touch with an

1754
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:21,520
engineer for

1755
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:25,200
at flear somebody flat out work

1756
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:27,280
i realize how impossible that is but

1757
01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:30,960
somebody who actually you know

1758
01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:33,119
designed and worked on that system and

1759
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:34,640
knows it in and

1760
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:38,000
out better than even the pilots

1761
01:03:41,109 --> 01:03:38,960
they're the ones who are going to be

1762
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:41,119
able to give the most educated answer as

1763
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:42,480
to what happened

1764
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:45,359
yeah i did actually talk to one uh i

1765
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:46,079
talked to one

1766
01:03:49,829 --> 01:03:48,720
anonymous person who was a guy who did

1767
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:49,839
uh maintenance

1768
01:03:54,230 --> 01:03:52,160
on i don't think it was even the aptlyer

1769
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:54,240
system but it was a very similar uh

1770
01:04:00,630 --> 01:03:57,359
system yeah basically

1771
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:00,640
the same technology and and he kind of

1772
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:02,640
more or less agreed with me and said

1773
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:04,240
yeah this is what happens and even like

1774
01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:05,599
with the gimbal thing with

1775
01:04:09,190 --> 01:04:07,359
the glare the rotating glare he says

1776
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:09,200
that's something that happens when

1777
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:11,359
uh someone tries to clean the front

1778
01:04:14,230 --> 01:04:12,799
screen and it gets

1779
01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:14,240
streaks on it and you get those kind of

1780
01:04:17,430 --> 01:04:15,839
blur shapes

1781
01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:17,440
where they stick those pods it gets all

1782
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:19,119
kinds of crap on them

1783
01:04:22,870 --> 01:04:21,839
yeah so they claim all the time yeah so

1784
01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:22,880
he says that

1785
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:24,720
the explanation i gave the gimbal system

1786
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:26,079
made sense and he wasn't really that

1787
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:27,359
familiar with the

1788
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:30,880
the fleur one one the uh the nimitz uh

1789
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:32,960
tic tac video but he kind of more or

1790
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:34,799
less agreed with me but you know he's an

1791
01:04:38,309 --> 01:04:36,799
anonymous guy he didn't want to come

1792
01:04:39,190 --> 01:04:38,319
forward and this is the problem that you

1793
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:39,200
have

1794
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:41,359
that was like the only guy i could i've

1795
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:43,280
been able to get because no one wants to

1796
01:04:46,390 --> 01:04:44,000
talk

1797
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:46,400
because they're all bound by ndas

1798
01:04:50,549 --> 01:04:47,920
because this is this is

1799
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:50,559
sensitive technology so it's it's this

1800
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:52,720
very frustrating wall of secrecy that we

1801
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:54,720
have that we can never get through

1802
01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:57,359
i mean i i get blasted almost every time

1803
01:05:01,029 --> 01:04:58,000
i say that

1804
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:01,039
about you know not wanting to to violate

1805
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:02,799
my security clearance or

1806
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:05,760
an nda i signed or just flat out share

1807
01:05:09,510 --> 01:05:06,640
tactics

1808
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:09,520
that would endanger somebody um it's

1809
01:05:14,470 --> 01:05:12,000
like the weapons and tactics that we use

1810
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:14,480
on a hawkeye they're not all classified

1811
01:05:17,670 --> 01:05:16,079
but they're not exactly public knowledge

1812
01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:17,680
and there's a reason for that

1813
01:05:23,910 --> 01:05:20,480
yeah you know i'm always going to err on

1814
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:28,069
and i i promise anybody who watches your

1815
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:30,480
your show and or listening to this i

1816
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:31,680
would much rather

1817
01:05:36,549 --> 01:05:34,480
just tell you everything i know and not

1818
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:36,559
have to walk that line

1819
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:38,880
because it would be so much easier

1820
01:05:42,309 --> 01:05:40,720
there's a lot of information i have

1821
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:42,319
access to and i know

1822
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:44,880
that answers a lot of questions but i

1823
01:05:48,230 --> 01:05:46,400
essentially have to play stupid because

1824
01:05:52,390 --> 01:05:48,240
i can't say anything about

1825
01:05:56,710 --> 01:05:55,670
even the 2015 incident with the gimbal

1826
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:56,720
and all that

1827
01:06:02,549 --> 01:06:00,480
i have nothing to do with that but

1828
01:06:03,589 --> 01:06:02,559
somebody who's on that ship on that

1829
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:03,599
hawkeye

1830
01:06:07,270 --> 01:06:05,200
in that squadron you used to be my

1831
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:07,280
roommate you know i've had a

1832
01:06:10,069 --> 01:06:08,559
conversation with him i know some

1833
01:06:12,470 --> 01:06:10,079
information about that

1834
01:06:13,109 --> 01:06:12,480
i can't say diddly i can say i know

1835
01:06:15,589 --> 01:06:13,119
something

1836
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:15,599
but i can't say anything because the

1837
01:06:19,029 --> 01:06:17,520
hawkeye they have

1838
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:19,039
for lack of a better term is twice as

1839
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:21,119
classified as what i worked on

1840
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:24,880
yeah it's it's just a fact of life for

1841
01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:27,920
those of us who have to deal with that

1842
01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:29,680
trust me we would all rather just say

1843
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:31,119
what we know

1844
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:33,920
you know because a little tidbit that i

1845
01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:34,880
share

1846
01:06:42,150 --> 01:06:40,480
give somebody like you the ability to oh

1847
01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:42,160
now i can go find this answer

1848
01:06:45,270 --> 01:06:43,599
but the problem is i can't share that

1849
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:45,280
tidbit you're never going to get

1850
01:06:50,549 --> 01:06:47,280
connected with that random answer

1851
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:50,559
it's it's just a fact of life i hate

1852
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:52,160
yeah it's unfortunate and this is

1853
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:53,599
unfortunately something that occurs a

1854
01:06:57,109 --> 01:06:54,240
lot in

1855
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:57,119
the the more general ufo field as the a

1856
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:58,960
lot of these things are behind the wall

1857
01:07:02,150 --> 01:07:00,079
of secrecy

1858
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:02,160
uh and like the ttsa stuff you know

1859
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:03,280
essentially it's like

1860
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:05,760
poking some holes in this this wall and

1861
01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:06,720
showing you some

1862
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:08,640
fascinating little tidbit but there's

1863
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:10,079
almost no context and then

1864
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:12,319
the navy gives you these these uh

1865
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:13,280
boilerplate

1866
01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:15,119
statements which aren't really helpful

1867
01:07:19,750 --> 01:07:17,440
at all and then it just kind of

1868
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:19,760
oh yeah just repeating the same thing

1869
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:21,599
over and over again

1870
01:07:24,710 --> 01:07:23,760
that's uh yeah that's that's their job

1871
01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:24,720
so

1872
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:26,960
you know i think that a lot of the time

1873
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:28,480
they uh

1874
01:07:32,309 --> 01:07:30,400
would rather the ufo people just kind of

1875
01:07:35,589 --> 01:07:32,319
go away because they're

1876
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,599
they just you know they're either

1877
01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:37,280
hovering around the edges of something

1878
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,880
that's classified or they're just kind

1879
01:07:40,870 --> 01:07:40,480
of wasting their time with with stuff

1880
01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:40,880
that's

1881
01:07:45,029 --> 01:07:42,799
this is irrelevant but they can't talk

1882
01:07:46,710 --> 01:07:45,039
about either one so it's it must be

1883
01:07:50,309 --> 01:07:46,720
annoying for for them

1884
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:53,750
all right uh said what's going on with

1885
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:56,400
uh uap expeditions

1886
01:08:03,109 --> 01:08:00,000
we um we have

1887
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:03,119
kind of stepped back and regrouped um

1888
01:08:07,510 --> 01:08:04,880
we had some people associated with us

1889
01:08:08,069 --> 01:08:07,520
who not that they're bad people at any

1890
01:08:11,029 --> 01:08:08,079
any

1891
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:11,039
they're all highly talented people but

1892
01:08:14,230 --> 01:08:11,680
because of

1893
01:08:15,270 --> 01:08:14,240
the coronavirus our initial plan of

1894
01:08:19,110 --> 01:08:15,280
going out on the ship

1895
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:19,120
and and actually doing hard science

1896
01:08:22,870 --> 01:08:21,279
off a catalina in that whole area where

1897
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:22,880
all this happened

1898
01:08:28,149 --> 01:08:25,679
it's not going to happen you know but

1899
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,789
um so we're we're dropping back we're

1900
01:08:35,910 --> 01:08:32,239
regrouping

1901
01:08:37,349 --> 01:08:35,920
um we want to get some

1902
01:08:38,709 --> 01:08:37,359
we don't want to speculate we don't want

1903
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:38,719
to guess we don't want to do anything we

1904
01:08:45,189 --> 01:08:41,120
want to try and get some hard science

1905
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:45,199
some hard data that people can then work

1906
01:08:47,669 --> 01:08:46,319
with

1907
01:08:50,309 --> 01:08:47,679
and one of the ways we want to do that

1908
01:08:53,030 --> 01:08:50,319
now is through

1909
01:08:54,229 --> 01:08:53,040
we want to get some hubs set up in some

1910
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:54,239
critical areas

1911
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:57,199
um they're working with somebody on uh

1912
01:08:59,349 --> 01:08:57,600
cattle

1913
01:09:01,829 --> 01:08:59,359
with catalina island to try and get this

1914
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:01,839
guy out there

1915
01:09:06,630 --> 01:09:05,040
we're trying to get some of the types of

1916
01:09:09,510 --> 01:09:06,640
devices that we can

1917
01:09:11,349 --> 01:09:09,520
get without you know going bankrupt in

1918
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:11,359
some places to hopefully get us

1919
01:09:17,269 --> 01:09:14,799
some some actual hard evidence

1920
01:09:18,630 --> 01:09:17,279
and obviously once we get that we're

1921
01:09:21,510 --> 01:09:18,640
going to share with everybody

1922
01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:21,520
you know there's no purpose behind it um

1923
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:21,920
but

1924
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:25,440
yeah skype sounds very interesting

1925
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:28,719
skyhub is gary himself wants to uh

1926
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,560
turn his jeep into a whole my mobile

1927
01:09:36,309 --> 01:09:34,560
science station and knowing gary he's

1928
01:09:38,070 --> 01:09:36,319
actually going to do it so

1929
01:09:40,309 --> 01:09:38,080
yeah i had a conversation with one of

1930
01:09:43,669 --> 01:09:40,319
the guys at sky hub who who's done that

1931
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:43,679
that exact thing and his uh

1932
01:09:47,910 --> 01:09:46,400
idea it was i'm not sure if it was a

1933
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:47,920
jeep it probably was achieved but it

1934
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:49,199
looks pretty uh

1935
01:09:52,870 --> 01:09:51,040
pretty amazing looks like a lot of fun

1936
01:09:56,470 --> 01:09:52,880
as well

1937
01:10:01,030 --> 01:09:56,480
yeah yeah it's like a mobile

1938
01:10:03,590 --> 01:10:01,040
ufo um bait slash detecting platform

1939
01:10:05,750 --> 01:10:03,600
which would be uh very interesting to do

1940
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:05,760
so it is like i said with all that hard

1941
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,960
evidence to

1942
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:08,640
to get ourselves to the point when we

1943
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:11,120
are ready to to gear up and go out on a

1944
01:10:16,310 --> 01:10:11,760
ship we

1945
01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:16,320
we can bring much more specific

1946
01:10:22,390 --> 01:10:19,440
equipment to get to you know

1947
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:22,400
yeah the truth for better or for us for

1948
01:10:24,870 --> 01:10:23,760
for words but

1949
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:24,880
instead of just going out there and

1950
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,640
guessing we're hoping these interim time

1951
01:10:30,149 --> 01:10:28,480
with some things like sky hubs

1952
01:10:32,950 --> 01:10:30,159
and some other technology to actually

1953
01:10:35,590 --> 01:10:32,960
get some more specific

1954
01:10:36,790 --> 01:10:35,600
direction for when we actually go out

1955
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:36,800
yeah it would be interesting

1956
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:40,000
have you have you personally had any ufo

1957
01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:43,040
experiences no no sir

1958
01:10:46,950 --> 01:10:45,360
my this is this is my only time and i

1959
01:10:48,070 --> 01:10:46,960
can't say i'm

1960
01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:48,080
you know people try and get me to

1961
01:10:52,470 --> 01:10:50,560
comment on on other stuff

1962
01:10:54,950 --> 01:10:52,480
and i just a don't have the knowledge to

1963
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:54,960
really comment on it in a useful way or

1964
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:56,000
be honest but they don't have the

1965
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:58,000
interest my interest in in

1966
01:11:02,790 --> 01:11:01,040
all this is regardless of what we think

1967
01:11:07,110 --> 01:11:02,800
it is or

1968
01:11:10,229 --> 01:11:07,120
there was something in our airspace

1969
01:11:11,510 --> 01:11:10,239
in 2014 or 20 2004

1970
01:11:13,510 --> 01:11:11,520
you know way back then there was

1971
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:13,520
something that wasn't supposed to be

1972
01:11:16,149 --> 01:11:14,400
there

1973
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:16,159
and i don't care if it turns out to be a

1974
01:11:19,510 --> 01:11:17,760
glorified weather balloon i at least

1975
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:19,520
want to know what it is

1976
01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:21,760
you know and that's one of the reasons i

1977
01:11:25,110 --> 01:11:23,440
keep contributing what i can to the

1978
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:25,120
story to get to it

1979
01:11:31,030 --> 01:11:28,800
you know yeah well i appreciate uh

1980
01:11:32,550 --> 01:11:31,040
you kind of talking to me here is there

1981
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:32,560
anything else you want to talk about

1982
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:33,600
that we haven't really covered or

1983
01:11:37,590 --> 01:11:34,320
anything that we

1984
01:11:38,950 --> 01:11:37,600
i didn't i don't think so yeah but but i

1985
01:11:41,510 --> 01:11:38,960
will do you a favor

1986
01:11:43,430 --> 01:11:41,520
people associate with you associate you

1987
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:43,440
with the whole seagull story

1988
01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:46,480
and i i am one who

1989
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:48,080
pokes at that seagull every once in a

1990
01:11:52,149 --> 01:11:50,800
while but you were joking when you said

1991
01:11:53,110 --> 01:11:52,159
it you weren't actually calling it a

1992
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:53,120
seagull

1993
01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:55,280
you know yeah so people have to let that

1994
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:57,280
go even if i'm one of the ones who keeps

1995
01:12:00,550 --> 01:11:59,120
poking at it we all need to let the

1996
01:12:02,149 --> 01:12:00,560
seagull die

1997
01:12:04,149 --> 01:12:02,159
thank you thank you i appreciate that

1998
01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:04,159
and to be fair on the seagull thing

1999
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:06,719
like i i did mention it in a

2000
01:12:09,669 --> 01:12:08,560
conversation with ufo jesus and

2001
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:09,679
if you're watching you can see that we

2002
01:12:13,990 --> 01:12:11,760
are kind of joking around but

2003
01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:14,000
uh what i was saying was that when

2004
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:15,920
fravor first saw the thing down by the

2005
01:12:18,709 --> 01:12:17,040
water there might have been a whole

2006
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:18,719
bunch of white things down there like

2007
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:20,880
flecks of water and boats and possibly

2008
01:12:24,070 --> 01:12:22,239
even seagulls

2009
01:12:25,669 --> 01:12:24,080
uh just down there at the water i didn't

2010
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:25,679
mean that the actual thing that flew up

2011
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:27,120
and flew around him was a seagull

2012
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:28,320
because that's obviously completely

2013
01:12:32,709 --> 01:12:29,520
nonsense

2014
01:12:34,390 --> 01:12:32,719
um and and really the whole seagull

2015
01:12:37,030 --> 01:12:34,400
thing comes from

2016
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:37,040
my initial theory for the the go fast

2017
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:37,679
object

2018
01:12:41,110 --> 01:12:38,880
which is you know one of the other

2019
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:41,120
videos completely different event

2020
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:42,880
and people you know they thought that it

2021
01:12:46,709 --> 01:12:44,400
was ridiculous for that which

2022
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:46,719
it wasn't entirely but uh that's another

2023
01:12:50,550 --> 01:12:47,679
story and

2024
01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:50,560
it kind of got tacked on to the uh to

2025
01:12:54,550 --> 01:12:51,840
the whole nimitz thing

2026
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,560
but you know people like to people like

2027
01:12:59,189 --> 01:12:56,640
to have their little memes and things

2028
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:59,199
it's just uh annoying it's a little bit

2029
01:13:03,110 --> 01:13:00,239
annoying because

2030
01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:03,120
it's a distraction and it makes people

2031
01:13:06,550 --> 01:13:04,880
like not take the actual things i say

2032
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:06,560
seriously because they think oh that's

2033
01:13:10,709 --> 01:13:08,080
mick west the seagull guy

2034
01:13:11,830 --> 01:13:10,719
or not i'm the tic tac guy i even made a

2035
01:13:15,270 --> 01:13:11,840
model of the tic tac

2036
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:15,280
at one point to do experiments with

2037
01:13:18,550 --> 01:13:18,000
yeah i think uh i think i think framer

2038
01:13:21,030 --> 01:13:18,560
did see

2039
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:21,040
a real object uh that uh that time i

2040
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:22,800
just don't know what it was

2041
01:13:26,229 --> 01:13:25,120
correct i said it you just want to get

2042
01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:26,239
to that truth

2043
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:28,400
yeah and the frame is out there give me

2044
01:13:35,350 --> 01:13:33,360
a call

2045
01:13:36,550 --> 01:13:35,360
yeah i was very happy to talk to anybody

2046
01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:36,560
about this this type of thing and i

2047
01:13:39,910 --> 01:13:37,679
think the more

2048
01:13:40,870 --> 01:13:39,920
uh discussions we have and the more we

2049
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:40,880
can actually dig

2050
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:43,040
i think we actually need to do digging

2051
01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:44,880
and not just be telling stories

2052
01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:47,120
uh if we get digged down with the actual

2053
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:48,080
data we can

2054
01:13:52,950 --> 01:13:50,640
perhaps at least answer some of the

2055
01:13:55,830 --> 01:13:52,960
questions that some people have

2056
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:55,840
that's the help all right well thank you